My No-Code journey

A few weeks ago, I had the chance to be interviewed by Muriel Imbert for the No-Code France podcast. It's an experience I loved. What could be better than reminiscing about good memories and taking stock of your journey by chatting with such a caring and inspiring woman like Muriel?

At first, I was afraid of having nothing to say. Listening again, I think I could do a second or even a third episode because I have so much to add. I wanted to keep a written record and share this episode with (at least) the entire world, so I transcribed it into English.

Here's my No-Code story, a kind of CV but much better, much more authentic, where we talk about topics that are dear to my heart.

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Welcome everyone to the first season of the No Code France podcast. We are Jocelyne, Xavier, and Benjamin, your co-hosts. As the episodes progress, we will share profiles of our no-coders and contributors to the association.

Given the growing ecosystem of no code in the French-speaking community, the testimonials from each individual will help shed light on how they use these tools and their involvement in the community. We wish you all an enjoyable listening experience.

Introduction

Muriel

Hello Lorène, welcome to the No-Code Portraits podcast. I'm delighted to have you here today. I think our listeners might not know you well because you recently entered the no-code scene, especially in terms of the association. Could you introduce yourself a bit, tell us a bit about yourself, and where you come from?

Lorène

Yes, thank you very much for inviting me, for thinking of me, it's really a pleasure. I'm Lorène, 23 years old, grew up in the Paris region, and today I am a no-code developer. I would even say a Bubble developer because that's mainly what I do. So, I've been a freelance, and entrepreneur for a short while and a great traveler. That's how I would describe myself, I think.

Muriel

Great, it's a pleasure to have you since we worked together at Otthõ. I thought of inviting you because you are my second podcast guest, so it makes me more comfortable for the third, to dive into it with someone I know. Also, you're a young woman who entered the tech field not long ago, and congratulations on recently graduating. However, you've been in the No-Code scene for a bit now. Could you tell me, what does no-code mean to you?

What is No-Code for you?

Lorène

So, for me, no-code, a broad question indeed. It's a new way, for me, it's a new way of conceiving applications and websites. Also, as we can see in Ops, it's a way to automate many processes. It's a way to open up the tech field to a larger audience because it's a field that is very closed, both in terms of the studies we've done and the thought of entering the tech world. It was something quite challenging, I think, some time ago, as it's a closed environment with jargon that seems incomprehensible. No-code is a way to demystify tech a bit and open it up to more people.

The comparison I make to explain to people what no-code means to me is that the most challenging part in the coding world is the jargon and learning to code, really learning a new language. So, for me, no-code is like using Google Translate when talking to foreigners. You can express what you want to do, and all this language barrier disappears thanks to no code. It allows us to work on real projects, as if we were having real conversations with someone who speaks a completely different language. That's how I explain no-code and how I see things.

Muriel

OK, it's interesting to see that perspective. In no code, there's still some jargon, though perhaps not as extensive as in traditional coding, which is more accessible, I think. Does that resonate with you?

Lorène

Yes, of course. Well, that's also something I think needs to be discussed about no-code. We say the goal is to make it accessible to everyone, but you can't wake up one morning and be a no-code developer. It's something that needs to be learned, like any profession. You have to go through a training phase, struggle a bit at the beginning. Like in any field, there's jargon. But I think it's less intimidating than the coding jargon because, yeah, really, the coding jargon is intimidating as it seems inaccessible. A developer can say a sentence, and you might not understand 80% of what they're saying, whereas no code remains more accessible words. After that, it's more about exploring concepts, but these concepts are perhaps a bit more relatable and with more accessible resources. There are many training courses that make it possible for people who don't understand tech at all to start from scratch, whereas if you look for coding tutorials on the internet, you need to hang in there.

Muriel

Certainly, knowing both, I completely understand your perspective. Could you tell me how you got into no-code? You've just graduated, so tell us a bit about your no-code journey.

The beginning of the journey

Studies

Lorène

Well, mine was quite accidental, actually, and I'm very grateful for that. To tell the story a bit, after high school, I went to engineering school because I didn't know what to do, and I wanted to keep my options open. So, I went to a general engineering school at the University of Technology in Troyes. We have two years of common core in this school, and then we can choose a branch. There are different branches like industrial engineering, information systems (basically, the IT branch), materials engineering, and networks and telecommunications. I entered this school without any idea of what I wanted to do, and I couldn't picture myself in IT at all. I thought, by default, I would do industrial engineering because it's quite common. It's what engineers do – IT project management. In these schools, you can choose your subjects every semester, so in the first semester, I took some general subjects. It turned out I took a computer science course, and I got really good grades. So, for the next semester, I thought, "I'll take other subjects because I see some friends struggling in this field, and I'm coming back, not making much effort, and I get it. This is the area where I want to do my assignments and spend hours in front of my computer while the other subjects, I need to force myself a bit."

Muriel

And in that computer science subject, was it coding or just an introduction?

Lorène

Not at all. This first subject was algorithm. So, we had problems, a bit like mathematical problems, and we had to write algorithms by hand. It was all on paper. I feel really old when I say that. But it was very archaic; we wrote everything. This was about five years ago, but exams were on paper, and it wasn't a specific programming language. We had a way of writing the code, and we wrote our loops, etc., all by hand. I loved that subject, and I got excellent grades. So, for the next semester, I took a subject where we coded in C. It was quite challenging, but again, I loved it. I remember spending my evenings trying to sleep with this algorithm problem in my head, waking up in the middle of the night, opening my laptop, and finishing my exercise as if it gripped me. I loved it, and it continued like that for two years. Then, I took an HTML/CSS course, where I had to code my website. I spent my breaks continuing my site while my friends were talking about their previous night. I was like, "Wait, wait, wait, let me finish something." I loved it. So, when it came time to choose my branch, I thought, "I'll go into this", but I still didn't see myself coding because, for me, there was a real mountain to climb, and I was at the bottom and I saw, in fact, my friends, well mostly boys at that time who were really good in the field, already knew how to code. Some of them had been coding since they were 13, and so on. And I thought, it's useless actually. I'm so far behind compared to them; there are too many good developers for me to reach that level early on, so I hesitated a bit.

Muriel

Excuse me for interrupting, how many girls were there since you mentioned there were a lot of boys?

Lorène

We were 20% in the school, and in the computer science program, I can't say exactly, but often I was the only girl in my classes, we were really not many. I feel like in the following years, there were more, but it might just be an impression because I knew more girls the following year. But yeah, often I was, even outside of the computer science program, often the only girl in the class, but in computer science, let's not even talk about it. So after that, I chose this field and had to do my first internship. I had absolutely no idea. I'm quite intuitive, so I do a bit of what life presents to me, and so I looked for an internship; I didn't even know what I could do. The somewhat common thing at the time, and it's not at all derogatory for those who did it, but when you don't really know what to do in computer science, you do your internship in project management because it's a basic thing. You're an engineer, you do IT project management, and so I had applied to several offers, and I was in the process with a company to do project management in Rennes, which was not my city at all. In fact, not even my region, and I also had an appointment with an entrepreneur, and what I really liked was that we had a good feeling because for the interview, he suggested going for coffee on a terrace in Paris. So I liked it compared to the other interviews where I was almost in a formal shirt, super stressed. I hate that. You know, the thing where I have to pretend to be someone I'm not, speak in highly formal language, and write a 3-page cover letter that no one will read; it makes me a little uncomfortable. So it went much better with this guy, and he explained two internship offers to me. I didn't understand anything about the first one because it was startup language; I didn't understand what he was talking about. The second one, I understood a little more. I understood that I would have to develop an app in no-code. I had never heard the term no-code in my life; he talked about Bubble, I had never heard of Bubble. Still, in my intuition, I thought, well, it's going well with this person. It was in Paris, so it brought me closer to my family and friends at that time. Since I didn't understand the first offer, I wanted to take the second one because I wouldn't know how to explain it, it would just be awkward if I accepted. So, it was a bit of a gamble, and I started my internship not with that person because I met another team; he was just an investor in the startup.

Muriel

Oh, so it wasn't even the person you were going to be working with on a daily basis?

My first internship, discovering Bubble (falling in love)

Lorène

No, it was just a big coincidence. So, it was actually a startup that focuses on training in the construction industry. It's accelerated training, so it's quite unusual. You can become an electrician or plumber in 2 weeks, and they have both an e-learning and on-site component. It was the launch of the startup, and we were in a tiny coworking space in Paris – just 2 offices facing each other. There were 4 of us in that office, and they were really in the early stages. So, before starting the internship, they had me go through Otthõ's e-learning, including the Marketplace. I did that a week before my internship, and I really liked it. So, I spent 6 months being paid to learn. It was a great environment; it's true that during an internship, you might not be paid a lot, but I was alone, self-taught, and they didn't know how to use Bubble. I had no pressure for 6 months, so we spent the initial phase conceptualizing, creating a kind of specification of everything they needed. Then, they hired someone to create mock-ups, and I spent several months creating their pixel-perfect front-end website on Bubble, which was very instructive.

Muriel

So, did you only work on the front end initially?

Lorène

Well, yes, at the beginning because they needed a website, and I wasn't very familiar with Bubble, so I didn't know it wasn't the best idea. They were quite meticulous about details, design, and so on.

Muriel

Just to clarify, was it with the new or the old responsive?

Lorène

I was lucky because it switched to the new one when I started my internship, so I was fortunate. I struggled with it, though. Just creating a header with a menu that opens when you highlight the text – even something as simple as that on Bubble – took time. Especially since I was a beginner, and these design-related things require a lot of research before finding the solution. Plus, I wasn't familiar with all the communities, forums, and everything. So, I spent quite a bit of time on that. Later, I worked on their back office, their internal management tool, and I had a lot of fun with it. There was a lot of reflection behind it, like figuring out their application process, managing everything in the back office, setting up a system to handle logistics, such as the products they would purchase and consume for the training.

Muriel

So, did you integrate the back-end part into Bubble after that?

Lorène

Yes, I did everything directly in Bubble.

Muriel

Okay, directly. Did you connect it with what they already had, if anything?

Lorène

They had nothing.

Muriel

Oh, they had nothing?

Beginnings as a freelancer

Lorène

Nothing. They were still producing the training content, anticipating the launch. The company was pretty much starting from scratch, so it was very interesting. After the 6 months, I had this platform, and I was genuinely proud of myself. You know that curve when you start – you have a steep rise, feel like you're super skilled, then you suddenly drop, realizing you're not that good, and then it gradually goes up.

Well, I was at the peak [naïvely confident], feeling like I was super skilled just after opening the back end. So, I started working on the back-end and had only a bit used APIs. I connected with one of their services, but I felt like I was really good at it. At the end of those 6 months, I was leaving, with one more year of school, going to Indonesia for 6 months to complete my final semester of courses. Since I was ahead in my studies, I had the equivalent of one day of classes per week in Indonesia. So, at that point, I thought, "Well, I'll start freelancing to fund my travels and comfortably explore Indonesia and nearby countries financially." So, I started looking for clients, wanted to apply to agencies, and it was a bit complicated. I just messaged everyone I could, thinking I had nothing to lose. At worst, I embarrass myself, and I'll find another ecosystem where no one knows me, you know, not a big deal if I mess up; I have no reputation. So, I contacted La Bastide because I was looking for clients – agencies, to be precise. I started with the ones that seemed most interesting, thinking I'd contact those I liked the most. Working on impactful projects, I thought, "I'll contact them first" So, I had a call with Alexandre Talon. But again, I didn't even know who he was. I felt small and intimidated. I showed him my project, the one I had worked on for 6 months, and he was impressed. That gave me a bit more confidence in launching as a freelancer. Again, I felt like I was managing things because he was like, "Wow, what you did is great" without seeing the full extent of it. But at that point, he told me, "Well, currently, we don't have the means to hire you. We don't have enough projects or financial resources in the agency"

Muriel

So, at what point was that? It's been about a little over a year, I suppose?

Lorène

Yeah, a little over a year. That's right. So, he told me to call Thibault Marty from Otthõ because they were looking for mentors. For me, Thibault and Otthõ were kind of the bosses, and I felt really small. But I called Thibault, sent him a message on Discord. It's funny because I saw this as something intimidating. You know, when you come out of school, you see the business world as something very intimidating, where you're going to get crushed, where you have to address everyone formally, and there's a hierarchical structure, as you see in big companies.

Muriel

That's outside of No-Code in general.

Lorène

Outside of startups, you know. But I wasn't very familiar with that term. Thibault almost immediately called me on Discord, and I was happy but also a bit, you know, amazed by the people from Discord. So, he called me and said, "Well, great!" as Thibault could do a quick and efficient call to see if you're a good fit. At that point, I had a major impostor syndrome moment, thinking, "What am I doing? Am I that good?" But we planned a call a few weeks later. So, I had a call with Thibault, Antonin Wesley – the three people I had seen in tutorials on the internet. I was quite proud of myself, a bit intimidated, and at that point, we planned something. It was supposed to be in mid-July, and we said, "Okay, mid-August, after your internship, take a 2-week vacation, and then come work for us 2 or 3 days a week." So, I was thrilled because when you start freelancing, it's a long-term contract. It's a fixed thing where I would learn a lot. It was really a gem, you know.

Muriel

Especially when you arrived, it was on a redesign of a version of Otthõ, so there was a lot to do, right?

Lorène

Yeah, totally. Yeah, but I had no idea. When I arrived, the platform was all black, and Wesley was still there. I was in India at the beginning because I had traveled to India before going to Indonesia, so it was really cool. I was discovering the whole digital nomad thing, being there on my terrace in India, facing the sea, and then developing on Bubble, doing what I love. It was amazing. After that, I did that for 6 months, balancing it with my studies and travels. I worked a lot with Anthony because Wesley left fairly quickly. Yeah, and I realized the strength of working with people, exchanging ideas, and learning from others. I had done 6 months solo, which was good because I was self-taught and struggled – that's how you learn. But working with a team, especially with Antonin, allowed me to focus on back-end and APIs. It really added a lot to my skills. For those who know Antonin, he's very pedagogical, an excellent developer. So, when you're trained by the best, you level up much faster. It was an incredible experience. With Otthõ, things were going so well because, for those who don't know, even as freelancers, we had virtual offices where we saw each other every morning. It really created a team spirit.

Muriel

A nod to Stan because it's thanks to him that I was able to set up the offices quickly.

Working as a Bubble developer at Otthõ

Lorène

It's an incredible idea, and I really appreciated it when I was remote because I was literally on the other side of the world. When I met the team, there was no ice to break. We laughed most of the time every morning, and I already knew the people. It was really, really cool. So, I decided to do my final internship at Otthõ because, at that time, I had decided to take a gap year. I wasn't sure if I wanted to continue with no-code, but after 6 months freelancing, I thought, "Well, I know what I want to do. I found an incredible company where I feel good, and I also have the freedom to move around with people I really like, on a human level." So, I did my final internship for 2 months in Asia, then we all met in Barcelona at the No-Code Week – the first time we saw each other.

No-Code week in Barcelona, meeting the community

Muriel

That's right, it was the first time we saw each other. The No-Code Week, for those who don't know, was organized by Stan and Alexis in Barcelona. So, it was a week with almost daily events on various no-code tools and the Spanish community. When you came, you were supposed to come to Marseille, but you took a detour to Spain for a week. We spent a magical week thanks to Stan and Alexis Kovalenko, who allowed us to have a great time. And you met the community at that time.

Lorène

Yeah, that really marked a moment in my journey. I went from not knowing anyone in the community to, well, at Otthõ, I was kind of in the loop because I was aware of what was happening within the company. But at that point, I really met the team. It was an incredible setting – we were all in a house, eating together, having a great time. It was a fantastic memory, a great way to meet the team, and, in addition, the entire ecosystem. I found it quite incredible because I'm not a shy person, but I'm a bit introverted at the beginning. Well no, quite the opposite. I'm not introverted but I can can be a bit shy at beggining.

Muriel

I was going to ask because it would mean I didn't understand something during that week.

Lorène

No, but you'll get to that. At that point, I felt very comfortable. I was thinking, "I can be myself, it doesn't matter, we're having fun." At the same time, we kept our seriousness, and when we had to work, we worked. That's also what I really like about this team – there are times when we work, and our interactions are completely different when we're not working. There's a really good balance with that. Even regarding the entire ecosystem, being a bit new, not knowing 1000+ no-code tools – I knew the names of people because I saw them on Slack or Discord, but everyone was approachable and very kind. And, well, I was the little intern from Otthõ, so it was easy to introduce myself and everything. It's a great memory of that week, and then I spent time in Marseille. We went directly to Marseille after returning from Indonesia. I didn't even go to my parents' place in Paris. I just continued, and I spent 2 months in Marseille. We went to the office, but not only that – we also went to Girona for the Bubble House for a week, and we went to Nantes for Web2Day.

The first Bubble house, discovering passionate people

Muriel

So, the Bubble House was a week in Girona organized by Sarah Esteve. We spent a week as international Bubblers, even with some well-known figures from Bubble. Emmanuel, one of the co-founders of Bubble, also joined us. It was a truly magical week. It's true that this late spring and early summer were quite magical, I think, for the Bubble ecosystem based on what happened.

Lorène

Yeah, it was! I feel so lucky to have been able to participate in all these events and be with the team. It was really great.

Muriel

Did it accelerate things for you?

Lorène

Well, clearly. I went from having no network, only knowing my colleagues through video calls, to knowing a lot of people. There are many people I've met, and sometimes I just go for a drink or coffee when I'm in Paris. Now, when I have a question, whether it's about the job in general, my freelance status, or technical questions, I know I'll find someone who knows and will help me. That's the most beautiful thing.

Muriel

For you, then, how is the no-code atmosphere in France compared to, well, it was really focused on a specific tool, and it was, I mean, when you don't know each other, you spend a week with people, there were about forty of us who didn't know each other, and we lived together for a week in a great place too. We shouldn't forget that. Could you say whether it's because of a specific tool or if, internationally, no-code also brings this sense of benevolence?

Lorène

Well, I can't say because, now, we've had the opportunity to meet the global community, let's say. We can say that for me, at least, I noticed on the Bubble scale that there was something really strong. But that strength, in fact, comes from the people who were there. Our common point, all of us, is that we were passionate, and that's really what drives our daily lives. It might sound a bit geeky to say that, but, in fact, we love it.

Muriel

We weren't in our basement or garage; we were in a great place. But it's true that we all had this passion.

Lorène

And that's the thing, I think. Our common point is that no-code and Bubble, in general, are not just our job. I want to say it's a way of life – I'm going a bit far, you know. But it's something we all have in common, and it's incredibly strong. I don't think I've ever experienced that in my life before. There's always a moment when it's usually awkward for a few hours, but that didn't happen. Everyone was very benevolent and kind. I really don't think I've experienced that in my life. It wouldn't surprise me if it's the same on other tools and in no-code in general because there's no reason for it not to be.

Muriel

Small colivings like that really bring people together and create the same, I mean, to apply for such an opportunity to spend a week with 40 people in a nice place, Sarah did a great job because we really got to enjoy it. There was, what's it called? There, I lost my word. There was a management of the entire week that was great. We didn't have to cook, we didn't have... Well, we did most of the cleaning towards the end. But the management allowed us to fully enjoy each other's company and exchange knowledge. Earlier, I mentioned that Emmanuel had passed by, but there were also three people from the Bubble team, so it was great because there were fantastic exchanges about that. And Gregory Johns, whom all Bubblers know, was there too, and everyone was natural and without any awkwardness. So, it was really, well, it was really nice in that regard.

Lorène

Just to let you know, I played pétanque with Gregory Johns.

Muriel

I know. I don't know if Thibault would like us to mention the score of the pétanque match between Thibault Lorene Gregory Jones and Sam from Bubble because...

Lorène

I just remember playing pétanque with them. Thibault remembers something else.

Muriel

I think Thibault is a bit upset. There's still some banter going on on Twitter about it, even though it's been almost 6 months.

Lorène

Yeah, yeah, it was really an incredible setting. And congratulations to Sarah for everything she did. Honestly, it was an insane experience.

Muriel

In that regard, a small piece of advice, honestly, if you hear about colivings happening in no-code and in a tool you know – if you're passionate about what you do, just go for it. It's really, really interesting, and you feed off all of that, and it gives you incredible motivation when you leave.

So, can you now tell us a bit about what you've been up to since you graduated? What are you doing now? Tell us about your post-training journey.

What do I do now?

Lorène

Yeah, so once I finished my final internship in August, I completed my studies at the same time. Today, I work as a freelancer. It's quite interesting how life works because now I work with La Bastide. I'm really happy to work with them. But I had met Alexandre in Paris and told him that, at an event, a No-Code event actually, to congratulate Thibault for his Community Champion title. We talked, and I mentioned that I was looking for freelance work starting in September. So, we ended up working together now, and I'm really happy about that. I also work with Otthõ as a freelancer. So, it's been a few months, and I've also joined a new venture about a month ago. It's official very recently. I joined Fanny Jozancy, who is now my partner in an entrepreneurial project. She has been working on it for two years, if I'm not mistaken. It involves two products, Carnets de voyage, and Planote.

These products aim to improve and simplify travel organization. Carnets de voyage is more for individuals on a free platform for everyone, and Planote is a professional tool for travel planners. I'm very excited about this project. It's been a short time, and I met Fanny because she also works at Otthõ.

Muriel

She had done the training at Otthõ as well and then developed her product. So, what made you decide to join? A little shoutout to Fanny – great project, and I hope both of you go far because she really worked hard on her projects.

Lorène

Yeah, yeah, I'm really happy because Fanny is a really good and serious person. I couldn't have found a better partner. She has a lot to offer, and I also have things to bring on the tech side and another perspective. So, I think it will be fantastic years, and I'm really excited about this project. So, today, I'm a freelancer and an entrepreneur on this project.

Muriel

So, if we summarize, at 23, you're a freelancer and a partner in a company. Did you imagine yourself here five years ago?

Lorène

Not at all. What I like is that no-code is like my little bubble where I'm a bit away from all the pressure I felt five years ago when I didn't know where to go and didn't feel capable of going anywhere. And today, I'm making my little place in this ecosystem, meeting incredible people. It's my little bubble, and I'm growing in this little bubble.

Muriel

Regarding that, can you tell me about what the No Code France Association has brought you in terms of your journey in no-code?

No-Code, inclusion and diversity

No-Code France association

Lorène

Yeah, I joined the association's Slack about one or two years ago when I started to join as many communities as possible. At that time, I was looking for technical help. So, I joined Otthõ's Slack, Discord, No Code France's Slack, and so on. I really joined the association as a member. It was, I think, 1-2-3 months ago, well, very recently, as a member. Because I didn't even know that there was this member thing, well, really joining the association. So, I was just a visitor at the time, and I joined the association not long ago. I joined to be part of the inclusion and diversity guild of No-Code France because it's a subject that really matters to me. When I arrived in the ecosystem, even though, when I tell the story, it sounds quite smooth, I think there are many things that I had internalized, and I could have potentially, if I had a different temperament, maybe, or I don't know, but I could have given up because of all the prejudices I had. So, in my engineering school, in the field of computer science, in the tech industry, there were many preconceptions, and I really want to work on these issues. So, these are small examples, endless debates, but for example, there are events where I was asked, who's girlfriend are you? As if it wasn't possible for me to be a developer. And on the other hand, if I have a boyfriend who is a developer, no problem. I was also told, it's funny, we were discussing my interests in no-code, and I like everything technical. I like struggling with solutions, and I'm less into design. If we go really big, what I prefer is finding quite advanced technical solutions, and I was talking to someone, I remember, it was at the Web2day. This person replied "Oh, it's funny, a woman who likes the technical stuff, usually they are more into design". You see, it's full of little things like that.

Muriel

Well, it's not because you're a woman that you can't like technical stuff. I totally understand you. I'm also on that side; I prefer everything technical than the front-end because I don't have any appetite for it at all. It's true that we find ourselves in these situations.

Lorène

And there was also, I remember something that had marked me. It's also about my age, one of the first calls when I was looking for freelance missions after my internship. Someone told me, it wasn't even about finding a client, it was someone giving me a bit of their experience, honestly saying, "You are too young, no one will take you seriously. You might need to have some experience, basically, in a big company, and you'll be more credible when you're older."

Muriel

Well, that's harsh too.

A women dedicated No-Code community on Discord

Lorène

There you go, and there are many little remarks like that, still. Well, as I said, my journey went well. It was quite intuitive, I didn't encounter too many obstacles. I know that for some people, it can be discouraging, it can prevent them from starting, and so I also want to work on these subjects. That's why I joined this guild and also created, with Amandine, the "No-codeuse" Community to bring together women in the no-code field. It's a Discord community that we launched not long ago as part of Otthõ, but it's a project that is also very close to my heart.

Muriel

Could you tell me the difference between, because on the No Code France Slack, we have a dedicated channel for no-code women, and regarding your Discord, what did you want to do with it?

Lorène

Yes, so the Discord is organized differently from that No-codeuse channel because that channel doesn't necessarily allow us, for example, to organize discussions based on tools, people's statuses, certain themes. So, on this Discord, we were able to organize things differently by creating a large dedicated space. Also, the idea was to have a closed server where we also regulate entries. So, we set up an onboarding system to meet people. Not just anyone can access the entire server, and we can really verify people's identity and moderate much more. It's something that is not necessarily done on the No Codeuse channel. We also wanted to organize it differently with many different spaces based on the person's profile to personalize the experience on Discord. So, that's why we wanted to use a separate tool and space.

Muriel

Okay, got it. When you talk about onboarding, what criteria do you need for other women who want to join the Discord?

Lorène

You just need to be a woman, that's mainly what I want to verify. Because it may seem silly, but several men have already tried to join the server, so our moderation is not in place for nothing. The onboarding allows us to meet people, introduce them to the Discord, and just validate that they are indeed women. You don't necessarily need to be in the no-code field, be an expert or anything. Just someone curious who is interested in the subject can, of course, join the server. So, we might be able to share the link in the...

Muriel

That's what I was going to say. I'll put the link in the podcast description below. Okay, no problem. What would you say to someone? What advice would you give to someone who wants to get started in no code?

My best advices and recommandations

Lorène

So, what would I say? I think the best advice, which I would have liked to apply earlier because I didn't do it from the beginning, is to join communities. Whether it's the No-Code France Slack, Otthõ's Discord, or other slacks, other tools, in the environments that interest you. It's crucial because often, when you work in no-code, you may work from home, not necessarily with a team, and having a community, seeing that other people are asking questions, that others are struggling technically. Well, it's hard to say, but sometimes it's good, it reassures, and you feel less lost. It's easier to position yourself compared to others and, of course, to surround yourself with people who can help you both morally and technically. That's the most important thing, I think. So, you really shouldn't hesitate. There are many people who sometimes contact me on LinkedIn, send me a message asking if we can have a call because they have questions about my job. I find this approach very interesting. I never refuse these people because I think it's really nice that they do that, and it shows their interest. Sharing what we do on social networks is also a way to meet people and make oneself known. Even if sometimes it feels like you're being foolish talking about what you do on LinkedIn or elsewhere, it shows your name. There are inevitably people who will be interested and who will face the same problems. It's also about building networks in the long run. These are interesting things. Another important thing is not to give up, to train yourself, and to understand that even though no-code is sold as being accessible to everyone, it's not necessarily true. I want to say, it's a more complicated discourse; it's more challenging than what is sold or believed. It's not in one week that you will become a developer and make it your job. It's like any job; there is training to be done, which is long, sometimes discouraging, and you have to hang on and take the time. Accept that it's not as straightforward a path as it seems, but it's really worth it. So, really hang on.

Muriel

For all those who really want to do no-code and have an appetite for it. It's about not giving up, training, and being interested in the field.

Lorène

Like any journey, there will be ups and downs, and that's normal. These are the things to know.

Muriel

Okay, there's something we haven't talked about that I would have liked to discuss. You recently started writing articles. Could you tell us a bit more, and then we'll also put the link to the articles?

Lorene

Well, for now, I've written two articles. I've opened a kind of blog/newsletter, and for now, it's about Bubble, but I want to expand. I have many ideas, different things I want to do. But the basic idea for me, which is very important, is to try to popularize tech a bit, to try to make certain notions more accessible. It goes with the vision of no-code, but to make certain concepts much more accessible and I have many other ideas, other concepts. I want to make it more accessible, and also, inevitably, because it's my expertise, explain how to set certain things up on Bubble in a relatively simple way. It's something that makes me happy, just to share my knowledge because the more people can access these things easily, the further they can go quickly, and that's all I wish for people. So, that's why I created that.

Muriel

Great! So, my question was whether they were in English. I saw they were in English. Do you plan to make a French version?

Lorène

I chose to do it in English to reach as many people as possible. We talked with Thibault about potentially making a French version for the Otthõ blog. So, I'll keep you posted, but there might be a summary available in French. So, there might be.

Muriel

Great! Okay. Now we're getting towards the end. Could you tell me about recommendations, whether in no code or outside of no code, whether books, articles, films, podcasts, what would you recommend to listeners?

Lorène

So, there's a book that really marked me these last few months, well, a few months ago when I read it. It's a book called "Present" by Lauren Bastide, which made me realize many things about the place of women in society, how society is structured, etc. And it made me think about certain things and have many insights. So, I highly recommend it to women and men. It can be very interesting. As for podcasts, I really like listening to "Generation Do It Yourself" by Mathieu Stephani. They are podcasts that are a bit long, they can last 2-3 hours, but they are portraits of entrepreneurs or athletes, for example, and it's very enriching because it educates on many subjects, whether business or more lifestyle. I highly recommend the documentary "Revolution No-Code" by Stan. I really loved it. He did an incredible job. And for those wondering what no-code is or those who just like it or not, in any case, I really recommend it. I think that's about it. Well, I have more technical resources, but that may not be the topic today.

Muriel

Okay, great. So, now you're... We can hear there are birds around you. There's snow at my place today, but could you tell us if it's not indiscreet where you are? And do you enjoy your life as a digital nomad?

Lorène

Well, I'll be brief, but a year ago, I left for Asia, as I mentioned earlier, to Jakarta for my studies. I thought I would just go for 6 months, and it's been over a year now. I'm unable to go somewhere and settle down for more than 2 months in France. So, right now, I'm in Taiwan. I left about a month ago, so I spent two weeks in Taiwan, two weeks in the Philippines, and now I'm on a road trip around the main island of Taiwan. It's really an incredible country that I highly recommend. For working as a digital nomad, it's really great. There's a good connection everywhere, even in the countryside. It's beautiful. There are plenty of hikes, the sea, rivers, waterfalls. It's too beautiful, and yeah, I'm really grateful for the life I have today. I don't know if I'll do this all my life, but for now, it's really what I want, and it's really great.

Muriel

So, for our listeners who want to go to Taiwan, they know they'll have a good internet connection and not hesitate because I think it must be really nice to do that.

Lorène

For those who want, we'll see the link to my travel diary, you'll have all my links, all my recommendations, and my little guide to the country.

Muriel

Great! Impeccable, great sharing. It's not just about no-code, but it can be nice. The last question we ask everyone is, what would you like to hear in the podcast?

Lorène

So, I would like to hear from Fanny Jozancy, my associate. I think she can be very interesting to talk to. And otherwise, I have other ideas, so I was also thinking of Géraldine Martinez, the general manager at Otthõ, and also Fanny Bellon and Marine Leclerc. I think that's the right last name because she got married. So, I never know which last name, but it seems like it's Marine Leclerc. They are two freelancers I really like, and it can be very interesting to have them.

Muriel

Super! Thank you for this opportunity. We'll tag them when the podcast is released, hoping they seize the opportunity and come to talk and share their life journey. Thank you, Lorène. I was really happy to have you on the podcast to maybe inspire other women or young women who may not dare to embark on these studies and who I think can succeed as you have on your side.

Lorène

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed chatting with you. If there are people who doubt, hesitate, they don't hesitate to talk to me and contact me. There's no problem with that, and thank you really to you and No-Code France for inviting me to this podcast. It was really great.

Muriel

Thank you very much. Goodbye, Lorène. Ciao, ciao.

I was delighted to interview Lorène. If you, too, want to be part of the podcast, don't hesitate. I would be happy to discover you through a passion we have in common: no code. See you soon.

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Happy No-Coding 🌟

Ressources

🎙️ Link to the original podcast episode

🤙 Women No-Code community on Discord

🍿 Révolution No Code, Stanislas Verjus

📚 Présentes, Lauren Bastide

🎙️ Generation Do It Yourself, Matthieu Stefani